As a former sex worker (online), I had to really fight myself to take the time to read and engage with this, because I tend to be of the belief that this is a nuanced issue that is best left spoken about by women who’ve actually been in it. I have my own complicated feelings and opinions about sex work and the ways it affects people negatively, though I may not fully agree with you (and that’s fine). I think that the desire to glamorize or romanticize sex-work comes from those within the industry constantly having to defend it. I think a lot of the valid criticisms can be said of modeling or physical labor. The way it affects our obsession with appearance or the way we must exploit our bodies under capitalism. I’m not of the belief that men who pay for sex or consume pornography are any more immoral than the women creating it. And I don’t find sex-workers immoral. It’s also easy to forget how many sex-workers identify as trans, disabled, or otherwise unhireable, and therefore sex-work is a lifeline for them. It’s the oldest profession because it’s the one thing that certain oppressed groups (typically women and femme individuals) have been able to monetize when we have no other options. Sex-work isn’t meant to be feminist. It’s meant to exchange money (which we all need) for a good or service which a customer base wants (in whatever way the service provider is able or willing to). When woman wear makeup to their corporate job because they don’t want to be seen as unprofessional or tired looking, that is not feminist, but it is a means of survival.
loved this reply. i enjoyed the main article too, but i love what you said about how sex work isn’t meant to be feminist, just an exchange of money for a service. i think that discussing and thinking about sex work as a feminist or non feminist act is important, but at the same time constantly boiling down femme-dominated activities or interests as feminist or not feminist feels … anti femme somehow. constantly viewing every move women make through the lens of feminism is almost objectifying in its own way. IMO (as a former sex worker) and as someone who interacts with other sex workers often, i don’t think any of us sit around patting ourselves on the back and congratulating each other for reclaiming porn and making sex work feminist, nor are we touting this idea to anyone else. we’re all just working and trying to make money 🤷♀️ the article was interesting and definitely made me think, but your reply is important because you are discussing sex work outside of the realm of academia and theory. sex work isn’t theory, it is practice, it is a means of survival. while discussing it as theory can create interesting conversations, i do find it kind of tiresome when people (particularly academics/writers/etc) who have never participated in sex work want to talk about it in this way because it almost feels pointless. intellectualizing sex work feels like a privilege that most sex workers don’t really have the time or the energy for. this work is ongoing, there will always be people willing to sell and buy sex so maybe our discussions should focus more on how to create a world where we can do that safely.
sorry for the ramble, your comment just got me thinking
Loved both of these responses!! I feel as though feminists don’t need to wag their finger (especially from an academic / theory perspective) but understand the class struggle and see it from sex workers pov as well! “Perpetuating patriarchy” like working a corporate job isn’t? No se 🤷🏽♀️ But I loved both of y’all’s reply
I also came here to say something as a former sex worker and am glad to have come across your comment. As a full-service sex worker who literally slept with people for money, I think this essay lacks the full scope of the work and leaves out workers who don't necessarily cater to the male gaze and the patriarchy but still engage in sex work. While I can understand the frustration of watching people who claim to want to dismantle systems of oppression find creative ways to combat it "from the inside", such as with sex work when women purposely show up to it as they wish (unshaven, un-primped, authentically themselves often going against stereotypical ideas of beauty), how else are we meant to participate in an oppressive society? A perfectly feminist world doesn't yet exist. I think "choice-feminism", a term I was previously unaware of, is still a valid form and found this essay to be unconvincing. It seems reductive to label the industry as not feminist, implying that the people who participate in it aren't feminist. It reaffirms my core belief that writing like this should be left to the people who have lived experience.
Thank you for sharing! As a former sex worker I agree that “writing like this should be left to people who have lived experiences”. I didn’t want to comment on such an opinion piece that suspiciously reads like ChatGPT word salad for a WGS 101 assignment (never take Audre Lorde’s name in vain. Understand “The Master’s Tools” first before using that quote). But the amount of likes and comments was alarming. I’m not even sure what point the writer is making— sex work is anti-feminist but also feminism is dead? I agree that choice feminism is problematic in that it perpetuates capitalism, individualism and division among feminists. Intersectional feminism is a more inclusive framework, as long as one doesn’t get caught up in identity politics discourse, while instead focusing on equality with regard to gender, class and race. One can say “sex work isn’t for me” but still support sex workers’ rights and decriminalization which was notably absent in this critique. This also applies to reproductive rights, trans rights, immigrant rights, etc. Also absent—because the writer didn’t bother to have a conversation with any SWs—was the notion that SWs might actually enjoy their work. Sure, any job (labor) is exploitive to some degree under capitalism but to assign one’s own virtues and puritanical (patriarchal) ideas about sex is a not a valid argument against sex work.
Exactly. The critique against choice feminism is honestly more theory than reality — would it be ideal to fight the patriarchy from outside of the patriarchy?
For sure, but where exactly does that space exist and how do we even get there?
At the end of the day, in order to rebel, we still have to exist. And in order to exist, we have to survive within the framework we live in too, whilst rebelling. There is no “perfect rebel” or the perfect way to rebel — there is only awareness and survival.
The issue with arguments like these are that, to a degree, most people understand that any job a woman holds in a patriarchal society will always be oppressed in some form — for the sole reason that the oppressive society exists to begin with.
But what is the alternative? Do women just not make money? Do we not try to crawl out from under the oppression? I don’t think anybody truly believes that doing sex work is the be all, end all of fighting the patriarchy.
These arguments really depoliticize feminism and individualize systemic struggles — and in doing so, it does exactly what it proposes it’s against. It draws focus from the real issues by targeting already vulnerable and marginalized populations. It also removes context — historically, women have fought and reclaimed our current existence in this world through these very means. Sex work, quiet rebellion, resisting from the inside.
Honestly, if there was any form of choice feminism that I’d be against, it’s the whole trad wife movement, as in this day and age, it is largely a choice borne from women with more privilege (intersectionally) that benefits *only* men.
But I digress, because still, the problem is never the victims trying to survive, it’s the beneficiaries of a system who are willing to dehumanize and exploit people with less power, or even exist in a world with power hierarchies like this.
Without dismantling that, there is no escaping this insidiousness in full.
In a world where they’d rather erase us altogether, financial autonomy is opposition; survival is resistance. That itself makes sex work not antithesis to feminism.
IMO the lense of the essay is so young, white, cis & heterocentric. . . it's for other skinny white women to decide who's allowed to consider themselves feminist & who is the other. & i know it's in fashion to do that, the current social climate has made its way back to conservatism even among women who have previously considered themselves radical. my question is, since sex work is work, how many other jobs are not feminist? how many think pieces will you write about how being a secretary is anti feminist? or a nurse? or was this all a display or moral high ground against people whose lives you will never understand......?
Thank you for this comment. I struggled with this essay after reading it a couple of times, but your comment has given me much insight. I appreciate the points OP mentions and their explanation of “choice feminism,” but, I do believe these sort of pieces should center the voices of femmes doing SW and their experiences.
Writings like this should be left to people with experience!!! As someone who has also had sex with people for money, i found this sorry excuse for an article a joke, and mid key anti-sw even though it claims not to be in moments (?) its equivalent to when someone says “you should lose weight for Your Health” but they’re really just fat-phobic
Thank you for this reply. I’m not a sex worker and never have been and I agree that sex workers’ voices should feature centrally in these conversations not just for the sake of diversity but because your articulations about your own experiences and the insights therefrom are most accurate and informative. There were aspects of this essay I appreciated and understood, but you’ve provided a much needed qualification and nuance which has been incredibly valuable. Hope more people see your comment.
Thank you so much for sharing and replying. As a non sex worker myself, I’ve always felt quite uncomfortable with the “sex work can never be feminist” conversation for exactly the reasons you shared. While I appreciate aspects of this article, I find the treatment of sex work being feminist or non-feminist to be an oversimplification of an industry with many intersections — particularly impacting largely marginalized communities.
100% nailed it, thank you. I was struggling with finding the words for why I disagreed with a lot of the original post and you worded it perfectly. Sex work isn’t trying to be feminist by default. I also agree this is generally for people who are actually in it to discuss
I'll begin by saying this offered an interesting perspective to me. I'd like to offer another perspective. While it is not the responsibility of anyone to carry the weight of everyone else's actions, sex work has had such a negative effect on women in third world countries. Speaking as one living in one such country, we do not enjoy the protections women in first world countries experience. But our men watch sex workers online from first world countries and transfer these ideas to our reality, and that often ends in rape. I'm not saying that it's women's fault that these degenerate African men sexually abuse women, but that it is a ripple effect. And so I personally really appreciated the writers perspective; because I don't see how we could argue that this has a net positive when so many African women are impacted by this. As the writer pointed out, porn was created as a tool for the patriarchy. Those of us who are less fortunate unfortunately still live in that reality, and porn hasn't helped.
Rape existed before porn and it will exist without porn. Pornography that depicts healthy relationships and mutual consent does not promote rape. Men rape because they want to, not because a western woman online showed her boobs and pussy for money. The implication from anti-porn advocates that all pornography reflects abuse/rape fantasies is simply incorrect and disingenuous.
I agree with you: ''Men rape because they want to''. That's why I prefaced by saying 'While it is not the responsibility of anyone to carry the weight of everyone else's actions'. It's also why I called this type of man ''degenerate''. My intent wasn't to oppose your perspective, simply to offer my perspective; as one who lives in a third-world country and experiences these ripple effects first-hand. While rape did indeed exist before porn, its proliferation and justification among degenerate men in Africa has increased directly as a result of porn culture. That is a fact.
I'm not even arguing with this statement: 'The implication from anti-porn advocates that all pornography reflects abuse/rape fantasies is simply incorrect and disingenuous.' It's true. But the fact that there is very little regulation about what goes online constitutes to OPs statement that porn was created as a tool of the patriarchy. And those ripple effects? Yep, we, African women in less advantaged positions, we feel them.
Is it really caring for all women, or even feminist, if we speak only about the benefits of a particular action while completely ignoring the adverse effects on women in less advantaged positions? My goal isn't to argue online, I think Substack offers a break from all that. Simply to offer an alternative perspective; a very real and often very painful one. Perhaps to change how we see things, perhaps to make the world a better place in some small way, somehow.
on the other hand, i think it’s a pity you have to include 1000 disclaimers about how your opinion on patriarchy and sex work doesn’t imply you’re calling for modesty culture or othering prostitutes or calling them immoral… it’s the i love pancakes so you hate waffles rhetoric. pro sex work feminists more often than not try to bring down our arguments projecting women hating. it’s exhausting. you did a good job <3
I feel as though I personally have fallen victim to choice-feminism due my own laziness and lack of research and also trying to be as digestible as possible. Reading this is making me rethink my previous way of thinking. This was so well written.
i’m not sure what the point of classifying sex work as anti-feminist is, though. we all understand some women choose to do it because it’s the best choice among shitty choices. i would argue in this framework it’s easy to also call service jobs in restaurants etc anti-feminist since they can so often involve performing for men, but what is the point except vilifying those who do it?
idk, to me it’s irrelevant and the only salient point that makes any sense with regards to dealing with the existence of sex work is how to make it so women have other options (ie are not so poor) and so that it is as safe as possible to practice
i also do want to say i think you are missing a subset of sex workers who are not women; who have clients who are not men; and issues like disability within all this. i say this as someone who is disabled and needs help washing: it is a service around the body, paid, and offering some care, and i think sex work can be similar.
Thank you so much for your comments!! I think for me the point of classifying sex work as anti-feminist is to rebut choice feminism and show people that there's more to making that choice. I'm not trying to vilify sex workers, as I've said in the essay, but rather trying to interrogate the theory behind it. The issue with trying to give women other options for work is that it still exists in a capitalist framework that perpetuates patriarchy. Yes, there are elements of service work that involve performance for men (doesn't everything, to some extent?), but sex work is different in that its existence relies on the validation of men and subjugation of women. I think that allowing sex work to continue perpetuates patriarchy.
In regards to sex workers who are not women: you are right in that I haven't touched on that in my essay! And that's because I think it constitutes a completely different conversation, but the point being: it's all still for the male gaze and a predominantly male audience. Achieving equality within sex work isn't the feminist goal. I hope that makes sense.
interesting. i get rebutting choice feminism, that’s essential. but i think for me i just don’t see how sex work differs from other types of work with this need of the validation of men and subjugation of women you write - that exists everywhere in society, doesn’t it?
i guess also i worry about what your next sentence leads to. what’s the end goal of saying that allowing sex work to continue perpetuates patriarchy? outlawing sex work ? penalising clients ? both those models only serve to drive the industry more underground and make it less safe.
how about the makeup industry - would you say allowing it to continue perpetuates patriarchy? and if so .. what should we do about it?
i don’t think its fair to say sex work is completely analogous to other types of labor. while I do agree that the subjugation of women exists almost everywhere in society (including in minimum wage retail jobs, service roles, and even the beauty industry) there’s a unique level of vulnerability embedded in sex work that sets it apart. a woman working in retail can still be harassed or exploited, absolutely, but the degree of bodily access and personal exposure in sex work creates a different kind of risk, one that’s more intimate and more potentially life threatening.
that said, I think it’s important to distinguish between sex work itself and how it’s being framed. to me, the article isn’t just saying that sex work perpetuates patriarchy, it’s critiquing the glorification of it, especially in the context of social media. tiktok and instagram are full of "alleged" onlyfans success stories, where sex work is stylised as empowerment, luxury, and freedom. But these portrayals often erase the economic precarity, the violence, and the lack of options that many sex workers actually face. the worst part is that the brunt of the audiences are young girls, cheering them on in the comment sections but lacking in a fully rounded understanding about what sex work actually is.
yes, sex work exists within the framework of patriarchy, like many other jobs, but I think the deeper concern is about the way it’s being commodified, aestheticised, and sold back to us as liberation. that feels like a trap in itself. i think while protections for sex workers should be set in place, at the same time it shouldn't be advertised in spaces occupied by young and vulnerable people.
I agree with your general takeaway, but a lot of your complaints about the way that sex work is portrayed on social media is endemic to corporate social media on a structural level, a.k.a. we can’t divorce the question of sex work from the conditions of capitalism.
for example, a sex worker with an OnlyFans is using social media for advertising. you need subscribers in order to make money, so you promote an idealized, romanticized image that is going to draw in potential customers.
are people going to engage with her content in the same way if she’s only posting about how awful and demeaning she might personally find sex work? obviously not. that’s not content that’s going to trend, nor is it content that’s going to help you build a client base.
that being said, if you actually dig a little deeper on social media there are still examples of those very same sex workers talking about the problems with the industry and how it’s not as glamorous as it’s made out to be.
i get what you mean, but my point was more that sex work shouldn't be advertised so loudly/normalised on spaces that are occupied by young people who lack the experience to understand the ramifications of sex work
there are many OnlyFans models who mostly post trends and dance videos, but then direct fans to the links in their bios. kids wouldn't necessarily follow them knowing that they are sex workers, but are still exposed to it in a normalised way. there are tons of sex workers who share their experiences in a deeper way or are very obvious that their pages are for adults, yes, but the majority of pages i see kind of hide it. i'm not sure if that made sense sorry
i’m also not sure i understand your reply to the point around giving women other options - which btw i didn’t necessarily mean other options to work, more other options to live comfortably without needing to do sex work, which implies a dismantling of capitalism, and putting in place at the very least something like universal basic income
You can give all the disclaimers you want about how you’re “not trying to vilify sex workers”, but if sex workers feel vilified (🙋🏻♀️) then, I got something to tell ya…
I agree with your critiques, I think there is something to be said about creating a third category of neutrality. Can something be neither feminist or anti-feminist, or if something is neutral does that make it anti-feminist?
How can it be feminist to support a woman's choice, and then not-feminist for her to actually make that choice? Does her sexual expression belong to her or not?
I didn't say anything about "agreeing" with her choice, I'm talking about her actually *making* her choices.
Look, think about "choice" in terms of abortion and reproductive rights. It has to mean that each individual woman can choose to end *or* continue her own pregnancy, right? Whether you or I imagine that having a baby is the "right" thing for her circumstances is not really relevant; if she has the right to choose, the choice is hers. Other people's thoughts about particular women's particular choices have no bearing on whether reproductive freedom itself is a feminist principle.
By the same token, if women by feminist principle have the right to control their own sexual expression - say, to choose to dress modestly, to choose their own partner, or to decline to have sex at all - then it can't be less- or not-feminist for them to exercise the same right to make a different choice than some third party might approve of.
The principle is in the right, not in the specifics of any particular exercise - or it is no principle at all.
I agree - sex work shouldn’t be romanticised. it’s not empowering (if single people feel that way for themselves: great, but it’s a real danger to let their voices overshadow the very dark reality for the majority, usually the ones given way less platform) it’s mostly terrible and exploitative (most women are forced - either literally or by circumstances - into prostitution and are victims of human trafficking). also - as you stress - the ones selling ‘sex’ should never ever be shamed, but the ones ‘buying’.
any thoughts on the following questions, that I’ve been reading on and contemplating a lot?
can you even talk about ‘sex’ when it’s paid for? is it serving people if it’s called ‘sex work’? can it ever be ‘voluntary’? is it comparable to exploitative work in general? or is it a whole different level as it’s invading someone’s dignity in an incomparable way? and is it only ‘paid’ for when there is cash exchange?
I’m not sure about the language or laws that would serve ‘sex workers’ the most and the community has very different takes…
That's such an interesting question! I do think that fundamentally if we're paying for sex it ruins what sex actually means as a social relation, but this is different for everyone.
In terms of it being voluntary, I think that's the paradox that choice feminism proposes that's hard to debate because of the illusion of choice. If we portray ourselves all as victims of the patriarchy, sex workers who choose to do sex work are also victims, just to a different degree. But I think that infantalises the decisions that they make. Ultimately I think there's a fine line between taking responsibilities for your choices under capitalism but also being a victim of capitalism/patriarchy, which is why the idea of blaming/shaming sex workers is redundant.
The idea of it only being 'paid' for when there is monetary exchange is also a really interesting idea because people can have sex in exchange for other things. But I think that might be outside the scope of sex as capitalistic work, and instead can be considered as 'work' in a domestic sphere.
i find that sex work isn’t -only- a dark reality for the majority you’re speaking of, and that it is -always- terrible and not only “mostly”. i think that there’s something inherently tragic in its very nature, and the recent wave of claiming it as “empowering” is a vain attempt at trying to transform it as something that it isn’t and that it’ll never be. if sex work was truly something normal there wouldn’t be a general attempt at trying to normalize it, there simply wouldn’t be this need for validation.
obviously cases of trafficking, regardless of the context, are always bad but here there’s a distinct case where the entire field is exploitative even if one does participate in it willingly. now why would it be so? i think it’s because of everything that is sociologically tied to sex, which would include intimacy, bonding, vulnerability etc etc.. and it is impossible for a single individual to try and dismantle a conception that is rooted in the collective mind because as a belief this has been passed down and it is very very hard to try and suddenly reshape it.
this is a deep issue that would require a more extensive argument to be made but fundamentally our sexual identity ( and i literally mean that — the “sexual” part of ourselves) is a big big part of who we are, which is why it is also extremely vulnerable, and therefore to try and revolve a whole profession around it is extremely detrimental to one’s sense of self and more importantly to one’s sense of agency because it is simply not natural to “give” such vulnerability to a stranger, someone you don’t know, as this bypasses the emotional/relational connections that validate sex in our minds.
I’ve been reading the comments, and honestly? I feel like I’m not even allowed in the room.
I did sex work. It was my job. My life. My survival.
But the way this is written - the language, the tone - it feels like it wasn’t meant for people like me to understand. And if I can’t understand it, how can I speak on it? How can I defend my own life?
It’s hard watching people talk about sex work in a way that feels like theory instead of reality. For me, it wasn’t a concept. It was rent. It was autonomy. It was choice, even in a broken system.
I just wish more of these conversations actually felt like they were for us - not just about us.
This article is calling for a resurgence in the debate about sex work in academia… so unless you’re an academic, I reckon this isn’t for you. Unfortunately this feels like it’s asking “radical” feminists to co-sign onto the “solving” of the problem of sex work (much like the savior complex sex workers already suffer through), which I’m unsure about what it actually is. Are we to tell men to stop desiring women? Should we all become asexual in our quest for liberation? Is it anti-feminist to enjoy the sex we sell? Apparently she believes that sex workers have their own voice and believe they can make their own decisions, but they couldn’t have possibly made the decision to sell sex as a feminist act because that’s “impossible”.
I know this isn’t a article for me directly although I believe intersectionality is crucial to building class consciousness without falling into the trap of class reductionism, I really appreciate your work I was a sex worker(male) for most of my late teenage-early adulthood(14-19) and it’s always been a bit of an odd thing to talk about in the sense that sex work very much is real work not withstanding the very obvious issues with my own tenure but the reality is that under capitalism no work is liberating because we are all exploited for our labor and oppressed in the class war that is currently killing us all.
No you’re all good and no it wasn’t a typo except I should have said mid teen 14 - early adulthood that being for me 18-19 I still did some indirect sex work after that until I was around 20-21 but it was confined to that of cam sites and phone sex hotlines which was much more removed
18-19 were for me years where I was definitely considered an adult by the state which is why I phrased it that way, unfortunately In all honesty I was forced to grow up pretty much from the ages of 10-12 but that is no way an endorsement of any experiences I’ve had
everything here was so well said. so many feminists proclaim to be supportive but never ask the question of WHY sex workers went into sex work. it's so rarely about self-love or true liberation. the demand for it is the problem. i can't believe this can even be called 'controversial.' but, again, you wrote this so, so wonderfully. i'm new to your substack and subbing because of this incredible piece.
I think we all know sex work at large is a cesspit and I agree with you that women are misled by OF propaganda that presents a false image of a reality which is ultimately capitalist and thus patriarchal, but I think you’re forgetting that some women do this because they genuinely find it fulfilling and not merely as a last ditch attempt to make some decent money. I know because I’ve met them, and they’re not doing it necessarily because they feel ’empowered’ but because they either actually really enjoy it, or even feel a calling. I know this sounds far-fetched, but there is a whole world of sex therapy and adjacent practices which does not share the same dynamics as porn, and which is often a refuge for people who have some level of sexual trauma/difficulty which mainstream therapies refuse to treat because sex is still considered dirty. If we’re going to protect women we absolutely need to dissolve the illusions you talk about, but we also need to destigmatise sex work and people who engage with it safely and consensually. Suggesting that women aren’t capable of giving this consent is a little patronising. Yes it is a very fraught world, but it’s not wholly corrupt. Your argument was interesting, but pretty abstract and academic, and generally gives me the feeling you haven’t spent much time engaging with sex workers themselves which, if that’s the case, is not a great way to go about advocating for them. I appreciate the depth of thought and research that went into this article, and I love theory, but it shouldn’t be used to the exclusion of lived experience.
Yes, I think part of the problem with a lot of academic takes against sex work is the tendency to lump together all the different forms it can take and not recognise the nuance in how broad of a term it really is. I am against “choice feminism” but there seems to be a lack of willingness to accept that women can enjoy having sex and being sexual which makes it impossible to conceptualise what a woman led approach to sex would be if we dismantled the oppressive and dangerous systems that currently exist
Genuine question: what is the alternative to choice feminism? I am onboard with the principle that just because you’re a woman that doesn’t automatically make your choices feminist, but I think this is an oversimplification of the spirit of choice. By way of example, consent can be coerced, but that doesn’t mean the notion of consent isn’t important or should be thrown out wholesale. I think the same goes for choice feminism. However, it feels like I’m out of the loop of the conversation - what am I missing?
Consent cannot be coerced. An *appearance* of consent may be coerced, but actual consent by definition means that a person feels, and is, free to go either way.
Thank you for writing this piece and laying out your arguments so clearly. I can see where you are coming from, and I appreciate your careful framing that this is not an argument against sex workers as individuals, nor a call for moral judgment.
That said, I find myself respectfully disagreeing with some key points.
In theorizing about sex work largely from the outside, without centering the voices and experiences of sex workers themselves, the piece risks becoming paternalistic. It seems to discuss what sex work means without listening closely to those living it: whose needs often include better working conditions, access to financial systems, legal protections, and safety, rather than condemnation or exclusion from feminist spaces.
I may well fall under what you call “choice feminism,” but not because I believe every choice happens in a vacuum or outside systems of oppression. Rather, I believe that respecting autonomy means resisting the urge to judge why people choose the paths they do, especially when many sex workers themselves articulate their struggles not in terms of wanting abolition, but in terms of wanting rights, dignity, and respect.
I fully share the concern about capitalism's entanglement with patriarchy. But if we don’t listen to the people most impacted, we risk substituting our own ideological purity for real solidarity. And that, to me, would be a betrayal of feminist principles too.
I’ve read so many opinions for and against sex work, and I’m at a point where I think the only people who can really speak to it are those engaged in sex work. Either side tends to moralise in a way that marginalises the voice of sex workers and either glamorises or demonises, whether intentionally or not.
I also think sex work tends to get oversimplified. Is all sex work patriarchal? Is porn always violent? Is it always for men? Is porn made by lesbians for a lesbian audience patriarchal? At an even more basic level, is the desire to view other people engage in sexual acts always patriarchal/immoral? Is the desire to engage in sexual acts for an audience always patriarchal/immoral? Can porn ever be liberating or empowering, either for sex workers or the audience? These questions never seem to get asked, and the debate always seems to be oversimplified. It becomes either sex work is good or sex work is bad. The latter, applied in an oversimplified way without asking these kinds of questions, comes close to the sex-negative moralising of the sex wars, which ultimately hurts women in its more generalised form, and becomes an inverted form of patriarchal oppression telling women how to behave without really asking why they might have
I don’t know if asking the question of whether porn is feminist really serves much purpose, other than to imply that sex workers can’t be feminists. I doubt many people go into sex work thinking it’s feminist. They do it because they have to. It’s disproportionately working class women, women of colour, and trans women that find themselves in that situation. I think it’s more productive to critique the issues that lead to those groups having to resort to sex work, rather than debating whether sex work is feminist or not, or immoral or not (and when we debate whether it’s patriarchal, we are inherently debating whether it’s moral). It’s no different to debating whether any other job is feminist or not. It misses the point of why someone does a given job, whether it’s sex work or cleaning toilets or McDonalds: they do whatever work is available to them to make the money required to pay rent and eat.
Yes! I feel like a boiled frog with this resurgence of swerf rhetoric. The final paragraph really read to me as if the author is saying to sex workers “I don’t think your labor doesn’t have value, just you.”
I understand that progress isn’t a steady march forward, but rather ebbs and flows, but I spent my youth in leftist spaces railing against terf/swerf beliefs, and it’s incredibly discouraging seeing its resurrection in my adulthood. Is any labor job feminist? Why is that the question? Why is it now so intellectual, again, to participate in the continued subjugation of sex workers’ right to simply exist?
A really reactionary type of feminism (or feminisms) seems to be on the rise again, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that TERFs/SWERFs are gaining prominence at the same time as the far-right is on the rise. I’m not at all saying g the author is far-right, but these kind of logics get picked up and repeated without realising where they come from or what their logical conclusions or implications are.
The author has clearly consumed MacKinnon and Dworkin, and it seems to be en vogue to do so, but I fear people are reading social critique without consuming criticism that makes them feel uncomfortable. I am desperately begging for people to pick up Judith Butler after consuming second wave feminism. I do feel as if the resurgence of radfems as well as conservatism is coming at a point where people are patently against feeling uncomfortable in a way that we’ve never seen before. ‘This person’s choices around their sexuality and their body makes me uncomfortable, therefore it must be amoral/anti feminist, etc.’ Being a swerf is absolutely a pipeline to more conservative ideologies, such as being a terf, and while I agree that the author is not on the far right, they are on a path that very well might lead them there.
This is an incredibly disturbing process to observe.
puritan culture is also on the rise. like... this entire article felt contradictory and borderline controlling. the authors words borderline generalizes actual people's experiences. like there many people who are victims of trauma who use sex work or their body to reclaim themselves and their agency.
there's also the angle of sex therapy and those who engage in sex work for purposes beyond just monetary gain. certain parts of the industry--yes, it's like that, but ignoring those who actively enjoy their work and feel liberated seems counter intuitive to me.
feminism isn't about what someone does per se, but is about a woman's agency. it's about her being able to control what she can and cannot do. that she has the power and authority that a man does, because at the end of the day we are all humans. equals.
trying to assert that woman can or cannot do something or that by doing something they aren't feminists makes you no different than the very people you seek to criticize. how is telling a woman she can't choose to be in porn any different from telling her she cannot be a doctor or an engineer or an athlete? this framing is reductive, and reeks of misogyny. women are adults.
life is shitty sometimes, and people don't always end up where they choose. but for those who can--choice is liberating. choice is them taking control. it is them owning their own bodies and their life and determining their own boundaries.
“trying to assert that woman can or cannot do something or that by doing something they aren't feminists makes you no different than the very people you seek to criticize. how is telling a woman she can't choose to be in porn any different from telling her she cannot be a doctor or an engineer or an athlete? this framing is reductive, and reeks of misogyny. women are adults.”
Taking up space in the social conversation about sex work as a civilian when there are actual sex workers who are silenced and ignored seems anti-feminist to me. It’s very clear that this is written from the perspective of someone who has done little to no research into what sex workers are doing within the industry to advance feminism. You ask a lot of better questions and provide context and nuance to the conversation where this article fails to present a cohesive argument.
As a sex worker and feminist this is a really great take that dissects the differen't parts of the industry and how to contributes to overarching patriachy, thank you for putting it into words
I mean I think everyone is allowed to have an opinion part of feminism is allowing woman to comment on all parts of life. However, this is a good piece however article after article is being written about this topic by people who have never entered the space or had a long discussion with people in the space. I'm a feminist and enjoy being a stripper, those things are not mutually exclusive, patriarchy is the enemy not other woman or certain jobs or individual decisions by woman
there’s many dark truths to sex work that people don’t realize or acknowledge. online or real time sex work. lowkey hate to see it romanticized. this post stung a bit but it’s all true.
Why would women choose to reclaim something that would bring us no real social benefit other than monetary gain?
Because monetary gain is *the* way to most material improvements under capitalism. And while solo cam sex work still involves making yourself *desirable* to men, profiting off them does give a real sense of *power* not just in a choice feminist belief sense but an actual material reality within this capitalist society.
And it feels like *very* attractive risk to reward ratio kind of labour. And while i agree its contributing to the continuation of patriarkala attitudes,what isnt? Like between the acquisition of skill and acquisition of "desirability" one is personally and, i dont want to speak for other women but still, generally easier for lot of people. So ig im saying that while abolition of prostitution has very real material benefits for women, what material benefits will abolition of lucrative and remote and "easy" cam work have?
hey kien-ling! first timer here and already intrigued by the topic youre writing.
i am all for women empowerment and women prioritising themselves, that includes the freedom of choices they made because they believe it's the best for them.
im a former hostess at gentleman's club who occasionally get extra tips from sexual conducts with clients and it didnt last long, but long enough for me to dip my feet in the water to grasp how marginalised the group still is. based on what i experience and witness - and i dont speak for everyone here, being a sex worker is not everyone's first choice. and im far from modest and conservative. but i can say objectively that it's not something i can personally do for years because there is a demand to meet and as you've mentioned youre trying to present yourself in a way that is appealing to the male-gaze, so you can be golden - for lack of better word. it's exploitative enough under your own volition.
all these made me wonder about the contemporary form of empowerment such as women-made pornography, lesbian wlw pornography made by women-for-women, those forms of media that fully ignore the male gaze demand and cater to women. im not referring to the majority of lesbian porn which shot and scripted based on the male gaze. im talking about porn and sex work industry by women for women. curious about your thought on this.
thankyou for writing such an interesting topic which i think should gain more traction<3
Thank you so much!! it's so interesting to hear about this from someone who's actually in the industry and i'm so glad you agree with me<3
In regards to wlw pornography, I think it still stems from the choice feminism argument. Lesbian porn might not feature men or be made from men, but it's the idea of making pornography that is a byproduct of the patriarchy that I think can't be reclaimed. And to a deeper extent I don't understand why porn should be made in the first place, when sex is a private matter. I don't think porn is a valid form of media, so representation in it shouldn't really matter. Would love to know what you think of that!
I’m interested to know where you draw the line between what is and isn’t a valid form of media. Erotic films that aren’t hardcore pornography share virtually all the same issues you have with porn, and although they’re not strictly intended for the same kind of pleasure as porn they are still supposed to be pleasurable - would you say that is also not valid media? The line between what’s considered pornographic and what’s considered artistic is very permeable. I’m asking because the idea of sex being a private matter being a driving force behind why you think pornography shouldn’t exist seems inextricable from modesty culture which you say you’re not advocating for. Also, the case can easily be made that many forms of sex work, including a lot of pornography, are also conducted privately and directly between two parties.
thank you for this comment! I’m uncomfortable with the idea that because pornography writ-large has patriarchal origins that all pornography is inherently patriarchal.
it feels akin to second-wave feminist arguments that all heterosexual penetrative sex is akin to rape—overly broad, infantilizing, and deeply negative about sexuality.
also, I agree that the author’s idea that sex is a “private matter” is something that needs to be dissected. who says? if the comment you’re responding to isn’t advocating for modesty culture, it certainly seems uncomfortable with sexuality being public. where does that line get drawn? is someone wearing revealing clothing crossing the line? what about displays of femininity meant to draw attention? sexuality is not something that is easily parceled out from everyday life experiences.
when i stumbled upon this topic, there's this word that i cannot find and you perfectly worded out. yes, sex work is a work. however, you cannot equate sex work with feminism as sex work works in a lenses of the male gaze
As a former sex worker (online), I had to really fight myself to take the time to read and engage with this, because I tend to be of the belief that this is a nuanced issue that is best left spoken about by women who’ve actually been in it. I have my own complicated feelings and opinions about sex work and the ways it affects people negatively, though I may not fully agree with you (and that’s fine). I think that the desire to glamorize or romanticize sex-work comes from those within the industry constantly having to defend it. I think a lot of the valid criticisms can be said of modeling or physical labor. The way it affects our obsession with appearance or the way we must exploit our bodies under capitalism. I’m not of the belief that men who pay for sex or consume pornography are any more immoral than the women creating it. And I don’t find sex-workers immoral. It’s also easy to forget how many sex-workers identify as trans, disabled, or otherwise unhireable, and therefore sex-work is a lifeline for them. It’s the oldest profession because it’s the one thing that certain oppressed groups (typically women and femme individuals) have been able to monetize when we have no other options. Sex-work isn’t meant to be feminist. It’s meant to exchange money (which we all need) for a good or service which a customer base wants (in whatever way the service provider is able or willing to). When woman wear makeup to their corporate job because they don’t want to be seen as unprofessional or tired looking, that is not feminist, but it is a means of survival.
loved this reply. i enjoyed the main article too, but i love what you said about how sex work isn’t meant to be feminist, just an exchange of money for a service. i think that discussing and thinking about sex work as a feminist or non feminist act is important, but at the same time constantly boiling down femme-dominated activities or interests as feminist or not feminist feels … anti femme somehow. constantly viewing every move women make through the lens of feminism is almost objectifying in its own way. IMO (as a former sex worker) and as someone who interacts with other sex workers often, i don’t think any of us sit around patting ourselves on the back and congratulating each other for reclaiming porn and making sex work feminist, nor are we touting this idea to anyone else. we’re all just working and trying to make money 🤷♀️ the article was interesting and definitely made me think, but your reply is important because you are discussing sex work outside of the realm of academia and theory. sex work isn’t theory, it is practice, it is a means of survival. while discussing it as theory can create interesting conversations, i do find it kind of tiresome when people (particularly academics/writers/etc) who have never participated in sex work want to talk about it in this way because it almost feels pointless. intellectualizing sex work feels like a privilege that most sex workers don’t really have the time or the energy for. this work is ongoing, there will always be people willing to sell and buy sex so maybe our discussions should focus more on how to create a world where we can do that safely.
sorry for the ramble, your comment just got me thinking
Don’t apologize, this is exactly where I was going with my reply.
Loved both of these responses!! I feel as though feminists don’t need to wag their finger (especially from an academic / theory perspective) but understand the class struggle and see it from sex workers pov as well! “Perpetuating patriarchy” like working a corporate job isn’t? No se 🤷🏽♀️ But I loved both of y’all’s reply
YES this. You read my mind.
That’s a very good point as well and gives me a different perspective on how to look at sex work. Thank you.
Please don't apologize. This was beautifully stated!
I also came here to say something as a former sex worker and am glad to have come across your comment. As a full-service sex worker who literally slept with people for money, I think this essay lacks the full scope of the work and leaves out workers who don't necessarily cater to the male gaze and the patriarchy but still engage in sex work. While I can understand the frustration of watching people who claim to want to dismantle systems of oppression find creative ways to combat it "from the inside", such as with sex work when women purposely show up to it as they wish (unshaven, un-primped, authentically themselves often going against stereotypical ideas of beauty), how else are we meant to participate in an oppressive society? A perfectly feminist world doesn't yet exist. I think "choice-feminism", a term I was previously unaware of, is still a valid form and found this essay to be unconvincing. It seems reductive to label the industry as not feminist, implying that the people who participate in it aren't feminist. It reaffirms my core belief that writing like this should be left to the people who have lived experience.
Thank you for sharing! As a former sex worker I agree that “writing like this should be left to people who have lived experiences”. I didn’t want to comment on such an opinion piece that suspiciously reads like ChatGPT word salad for a WGS 101 assignment (never take Audre Lorde’s name in vain. Understand “The Master’s Tools” first before using that quote). But the amount of likes and comments was alarming. I’m not even sure what point the writer is making— sex work is anti-feminist but also feminism is dead? I agree that choice feminism is problematic in that it perpetuates capitalism, individualism and division among feminists. Intersectional feminism is a more inclusive framework, as long as one doesn’t get caught up in identity politics discourse, while instead focusing on equality with regard to gender, class and race. One can say “sex work isn’t for me” but still support sex workers’ rights and decriminalization which was notably absent in this critique. This also applies to reproductive rights, trans rights, immigrant rights, etc. Also absent—because the writer didn’t bother to have a conversation with any SWs—was the notion that SWs might actually enjoy their work. Sure, any job (labor) is exploitive to some degree under capitalism but to assign one’s own virtues and puritanical (patriarchal) ideas about sex is a not a valid argument against sex work.
Exactly. The critique against choice feminism is honestly more theory than reality — would it be ideal to fight the patriarchy from outside of the patriarchy?
For sure, but where exactly does that space exist and how do we even get there?
At the end of the day, in order to rebel, we still have to exist. And in order to exist, we have to survive within the framework we live in too, whilst rebelling. There is no “perfect rebel” or the perfect way to rebel — there is only awareness and survival.
The issue with arguments like these are that, to a degree, most people understand that any job a woman holds in a patriarchal society will always be oppressed in some form — for the sole reason that the oppressive society exists to begin with.
But what is the alternative? Do women just not make money? Do we not try to crawl out from under the oppression? I don’t think anybody truly believes that doing sex work is the be all, end all of fighting the patriarchy.
These arguments really depoliticize feminism and individualize systemic struggles — and in doing so, it does exactly what it proposes it’s against. It draws focus from the real issues by targeting already vulnerable and marginalized populations. It also removes context — historically, women have fought and reclaimed our current existence in this world through these very means. Sex work, quiet rebellion, resisting from the inside.
Honestly, if there was any form of choice feminism that I’d be against, it’s the whole trad wife movement, as in this day and age, it is largely a choice borne from women with more privilege (intersectionally) that benefits *only* men.
But I digress, because still, the problem is never the victims trying to survive, it’s the beneficiaries of a system who are willing to dehumanize and exploit people with less power, or even exist in a world with power hierarchies like this.
Without dismantling that, there is no escaping this insidiousness in full.
In a world where they’d rather erase us altogether, financial autonomy is opposition; survival is resistance. That itself makes sex work not antithesis to feminism.
Surely, “let’s continue arguing whether or not sex work is feminist!” can’t be feminist…
🎯 exactly. Thank you so much for summing this argument up so eloquently!!!!
IMO the lense of the essay is so young, white, cis & heterocentric. . . it's for other skinny white women to decide who's allowed to consider themselves feminist & who is the other. & i know it's in fashion to do that, the current social climate has made its way back to conservatism even among women who have previously considered themselves radical. my question is, since sex work is work, how many other jobs are not feminist? how many think pieces will you write about how being a secretary is anti feminist? or a nurse? or was this all a display or moral high ground against people whose lives you will never understand......?
Thank you for this comment. I struggled with this essay after reading it a couple of times, but your comment has given me much insight. I appreciate the points OP mentions and their explanation of “choice feminism,” but, I do believe these sort of pieces should center the voices of femmes doing SW and their experiences.
Writings like this should be left to people with experience!!! As someone who has also had sex with people for money, i found this sorry excuse for an article a joke, and mid key anti-sw even though it claims not to be in moments (?) its equivalent to when someone says “you should lose weight for Your Health” but they’re really just fat-phobic
Thank you for this reply. I’m not a sex worker and never have been and I agree that sex workers’ voices should feature centrally in these conversations not just for the sake of diversity but because your articulations about your own experiences and the insights therefrom are most accurate and informative. There were aspects of this essay I appreciated and understood, but you’ve provided a much needed qualification and nuance which has been incredibly valuable. Hope more people see your comment.
Thank you so much for sharing and replying. As a non sex worker myself, I’ve always felt quite uncomfortable with the “sex work can never be feminist” conversation for exactly the reasons you shared. While I appreciate aspects of this article, I find the treatment of sex work being feminist or non-feminist to be an oversimplification of an industry with many intersections — particularly impacting largely marginalized communities.
100% nailed it, thank you. I was struggling with finding the words for why I disagreed with a lot of the original post and you worded it perfectly. Sex work isn’t trying to be feminist by default. I also agree this is generally for people who are actually in it to discuss
I'll begin by saying this offered an interesting perspective to me. I'd like to offer another perspective. While it is not the responsibility of anyone to carry the weight of everyone else's actions, sex work has had such a negative effect on women in third world countries. Speaking as one living in one such country, we do not enjoy the protections women in first world countries experience. But our men watch sex workers online from first world countries and transfer these ideas to our reality, and that often ends in rape. I'm not saying that it's women's fault that these degenerate African men sexually abuse women, but that it is a ripple effect. And so I personally really appreciated the writers perspective; because I don't see how we could argue that this has a net positive when so many African women are impacted by this. As the writer pointed out, porn was created as a tool for the patriarchy. Those of us who are less fortunate unfortunately still live in that reality, and porn hasn't helped.
Rape existed before porn and it will exist without porn. Pornography that depicts healthy relationships and mutual consent does not promote rape. Men rape because they want to, not because a western woman online showed her boobs and pussy for money. The implication from anti-porn advocates that all pornography reflects abuse/rape fantasies is simply incorrect and disingenuous.
I agree with you: ''Men rape because they want to''. That's why I prefaced by saying 'While it is not the responsibility of anyone to carry the weight of everyone else's actions'. It's also why I called this type of man ''degenerate''. My intent wasn't to oppose your perspective, simply to offer my perspective; as one who lives in a third-world country and experiences these ripple effects first-hand. While rape did indeed exist before porn, its proliferation and justification among degenerate men in Africa has increased directly as a result of porn culture. That is a fact.
I'm not even arguing with this statement: 'The implication from anti-porn advocates that all pornography reflects abuse/rape fantasies is simply incorrect and disingenuous.' It's true. But the fact that there is very little regulation about what goes online constitutes to OPs statement that porn was created as a tool of the patriarchy. And those ripple effects? Yep, we, African women in less advantaged positions, we feel them.
Is it really caring for all women, or even feminist, if we speak only about the benefits of a particular action while completely ignoring the adverse effects on women in less advantaged positions? My goal isn't to argue online, I think Substack offers a break from all that. Simply to offer an alternative perspective; a very real and often very painful one. Perhaps to change how we see things, perhaps to make the world a better place in some small way, somehow.
I wish I could repost your comment 😭
this is so well written and you’re right!!
on the other hand, i think it’s a pity you have to include 1000 disclaimers about how your opinion on patriarchy and sex work doesn’t imply you’re calling for modesty culture or othering prostitutes or calling them immoral… it’s the i love pancakes so you hate waffles rhetoric. pro sex work feminists more often than not try to bring down our arguments projecting women hating. it’s exhausting. you did a good job <3
Thank you so much! <3 and yea i had to word it really carefully haha but i think that's important !!
I feel as though I personally have fallen victim to choice-feminism due my own laziness and lack of research and also trying to be as digestible as possible. Reading this is making me rethink my previous way of thinking. This was so well written.
Thank you so much <3 !
This! I have also found myself in the same place
i’m not sure what the point of classifying sex work as anti-feminist is, though. we all understand some women choose to do it because it’s the best choice among shitty choices. i would argue in this framework it’s easy to also call service jobs in restaurants etc anti-feminist since they can so often involve performing for men, but what is the point except vilifying those who do it?
idk, to me it’s irrelevant and the only salient point that makes any sense with regards to dealing with the existence of sex work is how to make it so women have other options (ie are not so poor) and so that it is as safe as possible to practice
i also do want to say i think you are missing a subset of sex workers who are not women; who have clients who are not men; and issues like disability within all this. i say this as someone who is disabled and needs help washing: it is a service around the body, paid, and offering some care, and i think sex work can be similar.
Thank you so much for your comments!! I think for me the point of classifying sex work as anti-feminist is to rebut choice feminism and show people that there's more to making that choice. I'm not trying to vilify sex workers, as I've said in the essay, but rather trying to interrogate the theory behind it. The issue with trying to give women other options for work is that it still exists in a capitalist framework that perpetuates patriarchy. Yes, there are elements of service work that involve performance for men (doesn't everything, to some extent?), but sex work is different in that its existence relies on the validation of men and subjugation of women. I think that allowing sex work to continue perpetuates patriarchy.
In regards to sex workers who are not women: you are right in that I haven't touched on that in my essay! And that's because I think it constitutes a completely different conversation, but the point being: it's all still for the male gaze and a predominantly male audience. Achieving equality within sex work isn't the feminist goal. I hope that makes sense.
interesting. i get rebutting choice feminism, that’s essential. but i think for me i just don’t see how sex work differs from other types of work with this need of the validation of men and subjugation of women you write - that exists everywhere in society, doesn’t it?
i guess also i worry about what your next sentence leads to. what’s the end goal of saying that allowing sex work to continue perpetuates patriarchy? outlawing sex work ? penalising clients ? both those models only serve to drive the industry more underground and make it less safe.
how about the makeup industry - would you say allowing it to continue perpetuates patriarchy? and if so .. what should we do about it?
i don’t think its fair to say sex work is completely analogous to other types of labor. while I do agree that the subjugation of women exists almost everywhere in society (including in minimum wage retail jobs, service roles, and even the beauty industry) there’s a unique level of vulnerability embedded in sex work that sets it apart. a woman working in retail can still be harassed or exploited, absolutely, but the degree of bodily access and personal exposure in sex work creates a different kind of risk, one that’s more intimate and more potentially life threatening.
that said, I think it’s important to distinguish between sex work itself and how it’s being framed. to me, the article isn’t just saying that sex work perpetuates patriarchy, it’s critiquing the glorification of it, especially in the context of social media. tiktok and instagram are full of "alleged" onlyfans success stories, where sex work is stylised as empowerment, luxury, and freedom. But these portrayals often erase the economic precarity, the violence, and the lack of options that many sex workers actually face. the worst part is that the brunt of the audiences are young girls, cheering them on in the comment sections but lacking in a fully rounded understanding about what sex work actually is.
yes, sex work exists within the framework of patriarchy, like many other jobs, but I think the deeper concern is about the way it’s being commodified, aestheticised, and sold back to us as liberation. that feels like a trap in itself. i think while protections for sex workers should be set in place, at the same time it shouldn't be advertised in spaces occupied by young and vulnerable people.
I agree with your general takeaway, but a lot of your complaints about the way that sex work is portrayed on social media is endemic to corporate social media on a structural level, a.k.a. we can’t divorce the question of sex work from the conditions of capitalism.
for example, a sex worker with an OnlyFans is using social media for advertising. you need subscribers in order to make money, so you promote an idealized, romanticized image that is going to draw in potential customers.
are people going to engage with her content in the same way if she’s only posting about how awful and demeaning she might personally find sex work? obviously not. that’s not content that’s going to trend, nor is it content that’s going to help you build a client base.
that being said, if you actually dig a little deeper on social media there are still examples of those very same sex workers talking about the problems with the industry and how it’s not as glamorous as it’s made out to be.
i get what you mean, but my point was more that sex work shouldn't be advertised so loudly/normalised on spaces that are occupied by young people who lack the experience to understand the ramifications of sex work
there are many OnlyFans models who mostly post trends and dance videos, but then direct fans to the links in their bios. kids wouldn't necessarily follow them knowing that they are sex workers, but are still exposed to it in a normalised way. there are tons of sex workers who share their experiences in a deeper way or are very obvious that their pages are for adults, yes, but the majority of pages i see kind of hide it. i'm not sure if that made sense sorry
last paragrpah ate. that's exactly it
i’m also not sure i understand your reply to the point around giving women other options - which btw i didn’t necessarily mean other options to work, more other options to live comfortably without needing to do sex work, which implies a dismantling of capitalism, and putting in place at the very least something like universal basic income
You can give all the disclaimers you want about how you’re “not trying to vilify sex workers”, but if sex workers feel vilified (🙋🏻♀️) then, I got something to tell ya…
I agree with your critiques, I think there is something to be said about creating a third category of neutrality. Can something be neither feminist or anti-feminist, or if something is neutral does that make it anti-feminist?
How can it be feminist to support a woman's choice, and then not-feminist for her to actually make that choice? Does her sexual expression belong to her or not?
I didn't say anything about "agreeing" with her choice, I'm talking about her actually *making* her choices.
Look, think about "choice" in terms of abortion and reproductive rights. It has to mean that each individual woman can choose to end *or* continue her own pregnancy, right? Whether you or I imagine that having a baby is the "right" thing for her circumstances is not really relevant; if she has the right to choose, the choice is hers. Other people's thoughts about particular women's particular choices have no bearing on whether reproductive freedom itself is a feminist principle.
By the same token, if women by feminist principle have the right to control their own sexual expression - say, to choose to dress modestly, to choose their own partner, or to decline to have sex at all - then it can't be less- or not-feminist for them to exercise the same right to make a different choice than some third party might approve of.
The principle is in the right, not in the specifics of any particular exercise - or it is no principle at all.
I agree - sex work shouldn’t be romanticised. it’s not empowering (if single people feel that way for themselves: great, but it’s a real danger to let their voices overshadow the very dark reality for the majority, usually the ones given way less platform) it’s mostly terrible and exploitative (most women are forced - either literally or by circumstances - into prostitution and are victims of human trafficking). also - as you stress - the ones selling ‘sex’ should never ever be shamed, but the ones ‘buying’.
any thoughts on the following questions, that I’ve been reading on and contemplating a lot?
can you even talk about ‘sex’ when it’s paid for? is it serving people if it’s called ‘sex work’? can it ever be ‘voluntary’? is it comparable to exploitative work in general? or is it a whole different level as it’s invading someone’s dignity in an incomparable way? and is it only ‘paid’ for when there is cash exchange?
I’m not sure about the language or laws that would serve ‘sex workers’ the most and the community has very different takes…
That's such an interesting question! I do think that fundamentally if we're paying for sex it ruins what sex actually means as a social relation, but this is different for everyone.
In terms of it being voluntary, I think that's the paradox that choice feminism proposes that's hard to debate because of the illusion of choice. If we portray ourselves all as victims of the patriarchy, sex workers who choose to do sex work are also victims, just to a different degree. But I think that infantalises the decisions that they make. Ultimately I think there's a fine line between taking responsibilities for your choices under capitalism but also being a victim of capitalism/patriarchy, which is why the idea of blaming/shaming sex workers is redundant.
The idea of it only being 'paid' for when there is monetary exchange is also a really interesting idea because people can have sex in exchange for other things. But I think that might be outside the scope of sex as capitalistic work, and instead can be considered as 'work' in a domestic sphere.
i find that sex work isn’t -only- a dark reality for the majority you’re speaking of, and that it is -always- terrible and not only “mostly”. i think that there’s something inherently tragic in its very nature, and the recent wave of claiming it as “empowering” is a vain attempt at trying to transform it as something that it isn’t and that it’ll never be. if sex work was truly something normal there wouldn’t be a general attempt at trying to normalize it, there simply wouldn’t be this need for validation.
obviously cases of trafficking, regardless of the context, are always bad but here there’s a distinct case where the entire field is exploitative even if one does participate in it willingly. now why would it be so? i think it’s because of everything that is sociologically tied to sex, which would include intimacy, bonding, vulnerability etc etc.. and it is impossible for a single individual to try and dismantle a conception that is rooted in the collective mind because as a belief this has been passed down and it is very very hard to try and suddenly reshape it.
this is a deep issue that would require a more extensive argument to be made but fundamentally our sexual identity ( and i literally mean that — the “sexual” part of ourselves) is a big big part of who we are, which is why it is also extremely vulnerable, and therefore to try and revolve a whole profession around it is extremely detrimental to one’s sense of self and more importantly to one’s sense of agency because it is simply not natural to “give” such vulnerability to a stranger, someone you don’t know, as this bypasses the emotional/relational connections that validate sex in our minds.
I’ve been reading the comments, and honestly? I feel like I’m not even allowed in the room.
I did sex work. It was my job. My life. My survival.
But the way this is written - the language, the tone - it feels like it wasn’t meant for people like me to understand. And if I can’t understand it, how can I speak on it? How can I defend my own life?
It’s hard watching people talk about sex work in a way that feels like theory instead of reality. For me, it wasn’t a concept. It was rent. It was autonomy. It was choice, even in a broken system.
I just wish more of these conversations actually felt like they were for us - not just about us.
This article is calling for a resurgence in the debate about sex work in academia… so unless you’re an academic, I reckon this isn’t for you. Unfortunately this feels like it’s asking “radical” feminists to co-sign onto the “solving” of the problem of sex work (much like the savior complex sex workers already suffer through), which I’m unsure about what it actually is. Are we to tell men to stop desiring women? Should we all become asexual in our quest for liberation? Is it anti-feminist to enjoy the sex we sell? Apparently she believes that sex workers have their own voice and believe they can make their own decisions, but they couldn’t have possibly made the decision to sell sex as a feminist act because that’s “impossible”.
they talk about us like we're objects because to them we're a story, not an experience that is lived.
I know this isn’t a article for me directly although I believe intersectionality is crucial to building class consciousness without falling into the trap of class reductionism, I really appreciate your work I was a sex worker(male) for most of my late teenage-early adulthood(14-19) and it’s always been a bit of an odd thing to talk about in the sense that sex work very much is real work not withstanding the very obvious issues with my own tenure but the reality is that under capitalism no work is liberating because we are all exploited for our labor and oppressed in the class war that is currently killing us all.
That is so interesting! thank you for your insight<3
So not to ignore your main point but was 14-19 a typo or..
No you’re all good and no it wasn’t a typo except I should have said mid teen 14 - early adulthood that being for me 18-19 I still did some indirect sex work after that until I was around 20-21 but it was confined to that of cam sites and phone sex hotlines which was much more removed
There’s no early adulthood in the rango of 14 to 19…
18-19 were for me years where I was definitely considered an adult by the state which is why I phrased it that way, unfortunately In all honesty I was forced to grow up pretty much from the ages of 10-12 but that is no way an endorsement of any experiences I’ve had
everything here was so well said. so many feminists proclaim to be supportive but never ask the question of WHY sex workers went into sex work. it's so rarely about self-love or true liberation. the demand for it is the problem. i can't believe this can even be called 'controversial.' but, again, you wrote this so, so wonderfully. i'm new to your substack and subbing because of this incredible piece.
<3!!
I think we all know sex work at large is a cesspit and I agree with you that women are misled by OF propaganda that presents a false image of a reality which is ultimately capitalist and thus patriarchal, but I think you’re forgetting that some women do this because they genuinely find it fulfilling and not merely as a last ditch attempt to make some decent money. I know because I’ve met them, and they’re not doing it necessarily because they feel ’empowered’ but because they either actually really enjoy it, or even feel a calling. I know this sounds far-fetched, but there is a whole world of sex therapy and adjacent practices which does not share the same dynamics as porn, and which is often a refuge for people who have some level of sexual trauma/difficulty which mainstream therapies refuse to treat because sex is still considered dirty. If we’re going to protect women we absolutely need to dissolve the illusions you talk about, but we also need to destigmatise sex work and people who engage with it safely and consensually. Suggesting that women aren’t capable of giving this consent is a little patronising. Yes it is a very fraught world, but it’s not wholly corrupt. Your argument was interesting, but pretty abstract and academic, and generally gives me the feeling you haven’t spent much time engaging with sex workers themselves which, if that’s the case, is not a great way to go about advocating for them. I appreciate the depth of thought and research that went into this article, and I love theory, but it shouldn’t be used to the exclusion of lived experience.
Yes, I think part of the problem with a lot of academic takes against sex work is the tendency to lump together all the different forms it can take and not recognise the nuance in how broad of a term it really is. I am against “choice feminism” but there seems to be a lack of willingness to accept that women can enjoy having sex and being sexual which makes it impossible to conceptualise what a woman led approach to sex would be if we dismantled the oppressive and dangerous systems that currently exist
Genuine question: what is the alternative to choice feminism? I am onboard with the principle that just because you’re a woman that doesn’t automatically make your choices feminist, but I think this is an oversimplification of the spirit of choice. By way of example, consent can be coerced, but that doesn’t mean the notion of consent isn’t important or should be thrown out wholesale. I think the same goes for choice feminism. However, it feels like I’m out of the loop of the conversation - what am I missing?
Consent cannot be coerced. An *appearance* of consent may be coerced, but actual consent by definition means that a person feels, and is, free to go either way.
Thank you for writing this piece and laying out your arguments so clearly. I can see where you are coming from, and I appreciate your careful framing that this is not an argument against sex workers as individuals, nor a call for moral judgment.
That said, I find myself respectfully disagreeing with some key points.
In theorizing about sex work largely from the outside, without centering the voices and experiences of sex workers themselves, the piece risks becoming paternalistic. It seems to discuss what sex work means without listening closely to those living it: whose needs often include better working conditions, access to financial systems, legal protections, and safety, rather than condemnation or exclusion from feminist spaces.
I may well fall under what you call “choice feminism,” but not because I believe every choice happens in a vacuum or outside systems of oppression. Rather, I believe that respecting autonomy means resisting the urge to judge why people choose the paths they do, especially when many sex workers themselves articulate their struggles not in terms of wanting abolition, but in terms of wanting rights, dignity, and respect.
I fully share the concern about capitalism's entanglement with patriarchy. But if we don’t listen to the people most impacted, we risk substituting our own ideological purity for real solidarity. And that, to me, would be a betrayal of feminist principles too.
I’ve read so many opinions for and against sex work, and I’m at a point where I think the only people who can really speak to it are those engaged in sex work. Either side tends to moralise in a way that marginalises the voice of sex workers and either glamorises or demonises, whether intentionally or not.
I also think sex work tends to get oversimplified. Is all sex work patriarchal? Is porn always violent? Is it always for men? Is porn made by lesbians for a lesbian audience patriarchal? At an even more basic level, is the desire to view other people engage in sexual acts always patriarchal/immoral? Is the desire to engage in sexual acts for an audience always patriarchal/immoral? Can porn ever be liberating or empowering, either for sex workers or the audience? These questions never seem to get asked, and the debate always seems to be oversimplified. It becomes either sex work is good or sex work is bad. The latter, applied in an oversimplified way without asking these kinds of questions, comes close to the sex-negative moralising of the sex wars, which ultimately hurts women in its more generalised form, and becomes an inverted form of patriarchal oppression telling women how to behave without really asking why they might have
I don’t know if asking the question of whether porn is feminist really serves much purpose, other than to imply that sex workers can’t be feminists. I doubt many people go into sex work thinking it’s feminist. They do it because they have to. It’s disproportionately working class women, women of colour, and trans women that find themselves in that situation. I think it’s more productive to critique the issues that lead to those groups having to resort to sex work, rather than debating whether sex work is feminist or not, or immoral or not (and when we debate whether it’s patriarchal, we are inherently debating whether it’s moral). It’s no different to debating whether any other job is feminist or not. It misses the point of why someone does a given job, whether it’s sex work or cleaning toilets or McDonalds: they do whatever work is available to them to make the money required to pay rent and eat.
Yes! I feel like a boiled frog with this resurgence of swerf rhetoric. The final paragraph really read to me as if the author is saying to sex workers “I don’t think your labor doesn’t have value, just you.”
I understand that progress isn’t a steady march forward, but rather ebbs and flows, but I spent my youth in leftist spaces railing against terf/swerf beliefs, and it’s incredibly discouraging seeing its resurrection in my adulthood. Is any labor job feminist? Why is that the question? Why is it now so intellectual, again, to participate in the continued subjugation of sex workers’ right to simply exist?
A really reactionary type of feminism (or feminisms) seems to be on the rise again, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that TERFs/SWERFs are gaining prominence at the same time as the far-right is on the rise. I’m not at all saying g the author is far-right, but these kind of logics get picked up and repeated without realising where they come from or what their logical conclusions or implications are.
The author has clearly consumed MacKinnon and Dworkin, and it seems to be en vogue to do so, but I fear people are reading social critique without consuming criticism that makes them feel uncomfortable. I am desperately begging for people to pick up Judith Butler after consuming second wave feminism. I do feel as if the resurgence of radfems as well as conservatism is coming at a point where people are patently against feeling uncomfortable in a way that we’ve never seen before. ‘This person’s choices around their sexuality and their body makes me uncomfortable, therefore it must be amoral/anti feminist, etc.’ Being a swerf is absolutely a pipeline to more conservative ideologies, such as being a terf, and while I agree that the author is not on the far right, they are on a path that very well might lead them there.
This is an incredibly disturbing process to observe.
puritan culture is also on the rise. like... this entire article felt contradictory and borderline controlling. the authors words borderline generalizes actual people's experiences. like there many people who are victims of trauma who use sex work or their body to reclaim themselves and their agency.
there's also the angle of sex therapy and those who engage in sex work for purposes beyond just monetary gain. certain parts of the industry--yes, it's like that, but ignoring those who actively enjoy their work and feel liberated seems counter intuitive to me.
feminism isn't about what someone does per se, but is about a woman's agency. it's about her being able to control what she can and cannot do. that she has the power and authority that a man does, because at the end of the day we are all humans. equals.
trying to assert that woman can or cannot do something or that by doing something they aren't feminists makes you no different than the very people you seek to criticize. how is telling a woman she can't choose to be in porn any different from telling her she cannot be a doctor or an engineer or an athlete? this framing is reductive, and reeks of misogyny. women are adults.
life is shitty sometimes, and people don't always end up where they choose. but for those who can--choice is liberating. choice is them taking control. it is them owning their own bodies and their life and determining their own boundaries.
“trying to assert that woman can or cannot do something or that by doing something they aren't feminists makes you no different than the very people you seek to criticize. how is telling a woman she can't choose to be in porn any different from telling her she cannot be a doctor or an engineer or an athlete? this framing is reductive, and reeks of misogyny. women are adults.”
👆👆👆👏👏👏
Taking up space in the social conversation about sex work as a civilian when there are actual sex workers who are silenced and ignored seems anti-feminist to me. It’s very clear that this is written from the perspective of someone who has done little to no research into what sex workers are doing within the industry to advance feminism. You ask a lot of better questions and provide context and nuance to the conversation where this article fails to present a cohesive argument.
As a sex worker and feminist this is a really great take that dissects the differen't parts of the industry and how to contributes to overarching patriachy, thank you for putting it into words
Thank you !! I'd love to hear your perspective from someone actually in the industry, as my opinions stem from pure observation and reading
I mean I think everyone is allowed to have an opinion part of feminism is allowing woman to comment on all parts of life. However, this is a good piece however article after article is being written about this topic by people who have never entered the space or had a long discussion with people in the space. I'm a feminist and enjoy being a stripper, those things are not mutually exclusive, patriarchy is the enemy not other woman or certain jobs or individual decisions by woman
there’s many dark truths to sex work that people don’t realize or acknowledge. online or real time sex work. lowkey hate to see it romanticized. this post stung a bit but it’s all true.
Why would women choose to reclaim something that would bring us no real social benefit other than monetary gain?
Because monetary gain is *the* way to most material improvements under capitalism. And while solo cam sex work still involves making yourself *desirable* to men, profiting off them does give a real sense of *power* not just in a choice feminist belief sense but an actual material reality within this capitalist society.
And it feels like *very* attractive risk to reward ratio kind of labour. And while i agree its contributing to the continuation of patriarkala attitudes,what isnt? Like between the acquisition of skill and acquisition of "desirability" one is personally and, i dont want to speak for other women but still, generally easier for lot of people. So ig im saying that while abolition of prostitution has very real material benefits for women, what material benefits will abolition of lucrative and remote and "easy" cam work have?
hey kien-ling! first timer here and already intrigued by the topic youre writing.
i am all for women empowerment and women prioritising themselves, that includes the freedom of choices they made because they believe it's the best for them.
im a former hostess at gentleman's club who occasionally get extra tips from sexual conducts with clients and it didnt last long, but long enough for me to dip my feet in the water to grasp how marginalised the group still is. based on what i experience and witness - and i dont speak for everyone here, being a sex worker is not everyone's first choice. and im far from modest and conservative. but i can say objectively that it's not something i can personally do for years because there is a demand to meet and as you've mentioned youre trying to present yourself in a way that is appealing to the male-gaze, so you can be golden - for lack of better word. it's exploitative enough under your own volition.
all these made me wonder about the contemporary form of empowerment such as women-made pornography, lesbian wlw pornography made by women-for-women, those forms of media that fully ignore the male gaze demand and cater to women. im not referring to the majority of lesbian porn which shot and scripted based on the male gaze. im talking about porn and sex work industry by women for women. curious about your thought on this.
thankyou for writing such an interesting topic which i think should gain more traction<3
Thank you so much!! it's so interesting to hear about this from someone who's actually in the industry and i'm so glad you agree with me<3
In regards to wlw pornography, I think it still stems from the choice feminism argument. Lesbian porn might not feature men or be made from men, but it's the idea of making pornography that is a byproduct of the patriarchy that I think can't be reclaimed. And to a deeper extent I don't understand why porn should be made in the first place, when sex is a private matter. I don't think porn is a valid form of media, so representation in it shouldn't really matter. Would love to know what you think of that!
I’m interested to know where you draw the line between what is and isn’t a valid form of media. Erotic films that aren’t hardcore pornography share virtually all the same issues you have with porn, and although they’re not strictly intended for the same kind of pleasure as porn they are still supposed to be pleasurable - would you say that is also not valid media? The line between what’s considered pornographic and what’s considered artistic is very permeable. I’m asking because the idea of sex being a private matter being a driving force behind why you think pornography shouldn’t exist seems inextricable from modesty culture which you say you’re not advocating for. Also, the case can easily be made that many forms of sex work, including a lot of pornography, are also conducted privately and directly between two parties.
thank you for this comment! I’m uncomfortable with the idea that because pornography writ-large has patriarchal origins that all pornography is inherently patriarchal.
it feels akin to second-wave feminist arguments that all heterosexual penetrative sex is akin to rape—overly broad, infantilizing, and deeply negative about sexuality.
also, I agree that the author’s idea that sex is a “private matter” is something that needs to be dissected. who says? if the comment you’re responding to isn’t advocating for modesty culture, it certainly seems uncomfortable with sexuality being public. where does that line get drawn? is someone wearing revealing clothing crossing the line? what about displays of femininity meant to draw attention? sexuality is not something that is easily parceled out from everyday life experiences.
when i stumbled upon this topic, there's this word that i cannot find and you perfectly worded out. yes, sex work is a work. however, you cannot equate sex work with feminism as sex work works in a lenses of the male gaze